FEEDING AT THE WALL

[bluelinebill]

I bring this up because I found out that somewhere above a (certain level in government) the problem is treated kind of like the crazy uncle no one talks about but that everyone knows about.

If you work, live, run a business in or close by uptown Charlotte or you are in law enforcement, you know about the homeless and crime, the homeless and panhandling the homeless and the “Good intentioned” church people.

The Main areas are around 945 N. Collage Street that’s where you can buy drugs on the street and get a free meal from Urban Ministry’s

Then there’s the area of 901 N. Tryon Street and the city bus stop located there. Lots of drug and prostitution activity on a daily and nightly basis plus a big feeding of the homeless underneath the I- 277 overpasses on N Tryon each Sunday Morning.

But the best of all is Phiffer St, It’s located between N. Tryon and N College Street’s and just a short two or three block walk. From Urban Ministries
Located 945 N. Collage St.

The church people (as I like to call them) hold sermons and hand out food to the homeless several times a week. Sometimes the homeless are fed several times in one day during the week and always Sunday three or more times.

Now I understand the desires of those who want to help the less fortunate of us. But there has to be a balance here.
People who live and work in the up town areas are constantly bombarded by homeless, who are looking for a hand out, who defecate and urinate openly,
Who break into car’s wonder into office buildings to clean up in the bathrooms. Homeless who wonder uptown drunk, high on crack, heroin, meth causing problems.

Now to be fair it’s not (all) of the homeless.
My time in dealing with the homeless indicates it’s those who won’t or can’t get into the men’s shelter due to drug and alcohol use or mental / behavioral problems.
I have also found that homeless are being shipped here from other towns and cities in the state and region.

So what do we do about this?

First it’s going to take admitting we have a problem. Our leaders ignored the gang problem until it was slapping them in their faces. Our leaders ignored the catch and release problem with repeat offenders until some high profile crimes caused public anger and debate.

As far as what I would do---
1. Regulate the handing out of food by any group. Something like they have to get a permit or better they can only do it on their own property.
2. Who checks the health codes on these people who are handing out food? What a scandal if a group of homeless got sick or died.
3. No loitering zones.
4. Banning the sale of alcohol from convenience stores in the uptown areas and single bottles of fortified beers and wines.
5. Remove benches at bus stops in problem areas or change them to short time use.
6. Beef up patrols and enforcement and pound the areas where illegal Homeless activity takes place.
7. Make it hard for the drug dealers. If they can’t make money, like any business they will go away.
8. Work with property owners, dismantle homeless camps that dot uptown, especially around rail road and state highway property.

[bruce]

I agree 100%, A lot of these shelters are just enabling these (homeless) to stay as they are. Accountability is also good for those who have noble intentions in trying to help them. A lot of the homeless chose to live this way.
The staff who run these Shelters know this and they could change their policies to maximize help to those who are actually trying to improve their life.

[crimedawg]

Bruce,
I have been saying this for years. On Phifer Ave, the church sets up their mobile food donation center each weekend. Us folks that live in uptown refer to it as the "Bum-b-que." Drive up Tryon between 9th and 11th Streets, or WORSE down Phifer itself, and there are hundreds of homeless men passed out and/or laying around, after boozin it up, eating and drinking their fill, etc.

A "compassionate" person once said to me, "oh, it's so nice that they have this to enjoy once a week." To which I replied, "yes, it's so very nice until you go to leave for work one morning and almost step in feces because your front door stoop was used as a loo." Or, how many times has my car been broken into - window smashed - for a grand total of 40 cents in the ashtray (not visible, either, as I NEVER keep a single thing in my car, except cd's beneath the driver's seat, which have never been stolen).

The homeless have no respect for:
-other people's property
-crapping in public, believe me, I have seen it middle of the day occuring at 4th Ward Park
-harassing young women with vulgar and profane comments
-verbally assailing people on the street who don't proffer alms when they ask (oh so politely too, I might add
-defacing property - seen that all too often
-stealing bikes, mops, pieces of metal, tools, anything left out in sight that they might walk past (even in broad daylight, with others watching)

Once I was riding down 10th and Graham, and to my utter (and shocking) surprise, there was a homeless man pushing an enormous, commercial-size HVAC unit on top of a cart. I mean, this thing was huge. Turns out it was stolen from a nearby business. I mean, seriously, did he think he was going to hock it at the pawn shop?

There are legitimate homeless people -- the mentally ill ones. The ones who either can't get their medication, or don't take it ("because there's nothing wrong with me, why do I need meds?" folks).

If you have access to full backgrounds/criminal records of the chronically homeless in Charlotte, you will see that many of our friends at 945 North College Street have hundreds of arrests that span *decades* beginning in the 1980s... and they actual had addresses back then, too....

But a life of crime and drugs and alcohol took over, and that's why they are where they are.

[bruce]

Well said crimedawg ,I don't think there is anything to add to that!!!

[kooldad22]

Excellent points made! The homeless are a big problem in uptown and these church groups are only adding to the problem. We have to shut down the shelters near uptown also and move them to the county line. And give me a break on the Observer's main article a couple days ago! Woman with five kids does not know how to take care of them so this equals a tradegy for this poor family and space is running out at shelters for women. Are you kidding?! Don't have the kids if you aren't able to care for them in the first place! I'm tired of articles saying that we need to give more and more to the homeless. It only enables them to keep living like this. The only good advice to give a homeless person is to clean yourself up and start looking for a job!

[bluelinebill]

I just finished reading the Charlotte Observer report
(Sunday July 20th 2008) on the "wall" where the homeless are fed. Over all it was (OK) but the article did not speak to the large numbers of arrests made in that general area.
I am positive that a CMPD crime map of that area and the "Wall" area could have been obtained.

The homeless should be taken care of but not at the expense of the rest of the people who live and work here.

The article also did not address the differences between the various "church" groups who feed the homeless.
In the past some have refused to work with other group's and organizations because of these differences in religious belief's.

I can assure everyone that if feeding the homeless were to be shut down immediately on Phifer Avenue none of them would go hungry. There is food and aid to all who truly seek it.

[OnCrime]

I thought that I'd copy/paste the article you are referring to:
Link: www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/720538.html

Charlotte.com
Monday, Jul 21, 2008
Posted on Sun, Jul. 20, 2008

Police crack down where homeless eat

By Franco Ordoñez

In an effort to relocate homeless from a developing area of uptown, police this month launched a crackdown on misdemeanors at a popular gathering spot for free meals.
“The Wall,” as it is referred to, on Phifer Avenue next to the Hal Marshall Center, for years has been a place of refuge for the city's growing homeless population. Advocates for the homeless bring cars full of food several days a week and set up tables to hand out meals and clothes.

The police, pressured by local property owners, began the new project to enforce misdemeanor crimes such as littering and trespassing associated with the meals. It is part of a larger effort to reduce crime in the area.

Sgt. Ozzie Holshouser of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department said they're trying to move the meals to another location, though none has been suggested.

“If they moved this, I don't know where we would go for a meal,” said Don Fuller, sitting on the wall eating fried chicken Friday night. “A lot of people depend on this place to eat.”

It's a sticky issue that reflects Charlotte's ongoing struggle over how to balance the needs of its growing homeless community with continued efforts to revitalize uptown. Roughly 5,000 men and women live on Charlotte's streets.

The wall is near a key section of revitalization plans along the North Tyron Street corridor near Ninth and 10th streets. Michael Smith, president of Charlotte Center City Partners, said the area is set for “an incredible transformation” over the next few years.

Flagship Capital Partners, for example, bought the 2-acre Renaissance Place apartments site and demolished the buildings. It plans to build residential, offices and retail space. In September, BB&D Investments Group bought the Hal Marshall Center from the county for another mixed-use development. The center continues to house several county departments.

Police said they're receiving a growing number of complaints from area property owners about the homeless. The owner of Rustic Martini bar, at North Tryon and Phifer Avenue, reported that homeless have loitered and urinated on his property, police said. The upscale martini bar opened last summer. Calls to the bar were not returned.

Members of the homeless community say the police are trying to eliminate one of the few places they have to get a hot dinner in uptown.

People say they've been eating at the wall since at least 1999. As many as 100 men and women lined up near the roughly 3-foot cement wall on Friday for a meal provided by Eva Walker, who said she's been serving food there for the past five years.

African Americans, whites and Hispanics ate fried chicken and spaghetti as two police officers stood near the Rustic Martini parking lot stopping the homeless from walking on private property.

Fuller, 46, who has been living on the street for more than a year after losing his job with a moving company, spoke with two other homeless men about the increase in police activity.

John Farrow, a 49-year-old former hospital chef who's been on the street more than a year, said he understood that some people are scared of the homeless and think they're all drug addicts and criminals. But he said many of the homeless are people like he and his wife who ran out of luck. They're trying to make it back on their feet, but they need a place to eat.

“It's like they're trying to push us out of town,” he said.

The men said police approached them while eating last Sunday at the wall.

Eddie Woods, 49, said officers told them they were loitering and would soon no longer be able to eat there. Fuller said one woman, who he described as an advocate, was handcuffed for standing up to the police and arguing for their rights.

Police said the woman was arrested for disorderly conduct after screaming at officers and blocking traffic.

“We're not trying to stop people from feeding the homeless,” Holshouser said. “We're trying to get the people to coordinate better. We're trying to get them to find a fixed location so they're not standing, congregating, littering.”

Homeless groups say they're sympathetic to the concerns of local business owners but said efforts can be made to help keep the area clean without having to stop the meals.

“The challenge is finding another location that is convenient for people who need to eat,” said Liz Clasen, associate director of the Urban Ministry Center. “As the uptown continues to develop, there are less welcome places for the homeless.”

The homeless can also get some meals at various churches as well as the Community Outreach Christian Ministries and Urban Ministry Center, both near uptown.

This is not the first time police have stepped up efforts to control the homeless population in uptown.

In 2003, the city passed an ordinance making it illegal to panhandle within 20 feet of ATMs, outdoor cafes, banks, taxi stands and transit stops. Uptown benches were outfitted with metal bars to stop people from lying down.

Some advocates worry the increased pressure to move the meals could lead to the dinners stopping altogether.

Kenya Golden, a volunteer helping serve food Friday, worries about finding another place.

Said Golden: “If they moved the people who are trying to help the homeless, then they'll have no one else.”

[slappy]

The homeless are an issue in the queen city. while at the "wall" they get food and they get other things they may need. We all see them, sleeping in bus shelters and so on. but what will running them out of uptown really mean?. It means they will go to dillworth or myers park, they will find a safe place to go. So is a one block street so bad? They will go to a safe place. it will not be west blvd or wilkison it will be east or dillworth. Let them have the "wall"

[bluelinebill]

Slappy said----------
The homeless are an issue in the queen city. while at the "wall" they get food and they get other things they may need. We all see them, sleeping in bus shelters and so on. but what will running them out of uptown really mean?. It means they will go to dillworth or myers park, they will find a safe place to go. So is a one block street so bad? They will go to a safe place. it will not be west blvd or wilkison it will be east or dillworth. Let them have the "wall"

They are already in Dilworth and Myers Park and along Independence Blvd They sleep in the parks and hang around convenience stores to be close to alcohol sources.

I am not speaking of the working homeless. I am speaking of the homeless who break into your car/who strip naked and wash in the bathrooms of your office/ who squat between car's and defaecate/aggressively pan-handle/buy and smoke rock cocaine.

The "WALL" as it's called, is Mecklenburg County Property.
As I said in my earlier post they could stop feeding activity's completely at the "WALL" and no one would go with out food or clothing.

Drug dealers know about this area, some of their best clients are to be found here at the "WALL"

But this debate is all academic-- as soon as Mecklenburg County vacates the building and demolition occurs and building begins you can bet that this activity will be discouraged very firmly by the new property owners.

[bluelinebill]

In todays Charlotte Observer
A story about Miss Eva who feeds the homeless at the "WALL"

I think that Miss Eva's desire to do good in the world is a wonderful thing.

She her self has been victimized by the very people that she wants to help.
That is her choice, to place her self and family in that position.

But who decides for the person who becomes a victim due to Miss Eva's charity?
If a person becomes a victim because of this feeding who speaks for them?
Just as not all the homeless are criminals, not all of them are with out malice or the will to pass up an opportunity to take.

Miss Eva's desire to help people would be better served by working with one of the numerous church groups in the area.

Crisis Assistance / The Soup Kitchen / Battered Womans Shelter/
Salvation Army Womans Shelter /Meals on Wheels / The Food Bank /Urban Ministries.

I think in someway this would not give her the lime light
(if you will) that she has now.

So again this has more to do with personal satisfaction for Miss Eva.

No one would go hungry or with out clothing if this activity were to stop. There are plenty of places to seek help and give it.


It's In todays Observer July 23, 2008 front page

[kooldad22]

Another thing about that article, look at the pictures of them on the wall. They are all medium to obese! Come out in person and look at them and the majority of them get more than their share of food. Don't give them money either because they will use it to buy alcohol. Some of them are truly down on their luck but the majority want to stay this way. It says in the article also that some have been coming to the wall since 1999! Are you kidding me?! Get yourself cleaned up and get a dang job already! Obviously you are able-bodied. The economy was good most of the time between then and now so I have no sympathy for someone who stays homeless for almost a decade.

[bluelinebill]

Bill Diehi and Tom Bush now threaten the CMPD with federal law suit over the feeding at Phifer St.

I have said before and I stand by it--- NO one would go hungry if they shut this feeding place down.

This is more about well meaning people wanting to help but causing a bigger problem in doing so.

A mere two and a half blocks up from Phifer St is 945 N College St. There people are fed daily.

Just down from 10th and Graham St and Statesville Ave is Crises Assistance Ministries where a homeless person can get a new clothing once a week.

The homeless are being fed there is no problem.

The problem is people who mean well, injecting their opinions into a subject they know nothing about or don’t care about it’s affects on others.

Bill Diehi and Tom Bush according to the Charlotte Observer fix meals each Saturday morning for the homeless.
Because you fix meals for people does not mean you under stand the dynamics of the problem this area has caused.

I hope these well meaning individuals will take the some time to visit among those they have such strong feelings for.

I don’t mean a few hours I mean a week or so and incognito. That way it becomes personal not an abstract idea about helping people you have never met and lived around and seen their lives.

Again I am for helping people our government should do more.
I am however about balancing that help so that it has the least impact on our community.

[bruce]

Bill Diehi and TOM Bush should remember the three rules about drug addicts because a high % of the homeless have drug abuse problems.
1- You cannot do enough for them.
2- They have a excuse for everything.
3- you cannot ever give them enough money to keep them happy.

I am sure feeding these guys is a good thing but lets get real,a lot of them just want free clothes and a hot meal so they can free up the money they get (by stealing or maybe working) to spend on DRUGS.

[slappy]

Bill, My last post was to say slightly short sighted, I to am sometimes taken with the " these people are down on there luck and need help. ' Even though i have ALOT of expierience in dealing with them. My wife and I give to certain charities who i have seen the results, that there services are succsessful.
I do realize that the homeless are in dillworth already, stomping grounds for two of charlottes most seen homeless. William larry "chilly willy" majors and james rigdon. Both can often be seen around the area of the starbucks and the circle k at east and kennilworth. I will send kudos to your original post, and have cut and posted it , so I may comment
1. Regulate the handing out of food by any group. Something like they have to get a permit or better they can only do it on their own property. ( Great Idea, if a resaraunt must be licenced why not someone handing out food produced en mass )
2. Who checks the health codes on these people who are handing out food? What a scandal if a group of homeless got sick or died.
3. No loitering zones. ( I thought they already had those)
4. Banning the sale of alcohol from convenience stores in the uptown areas and single bottles of fortified beers and wines.
( most homeless will not sit down with a sam adams or a pino grigio, I agree but ban the sale of malt liquor this would include, Hurricane, king cobra, schlitz,St Ides, Old English, Steel reserve 211. The new energy drink malt beverages. and definatly fortified wines. Night train, thunder bird, MD 20/20, wild irish rose, cisco and boones farm, throw manichewitz in there too. these are the drinks of choice for the homeless )
5. Remove benches at bus stops in problem areas or change them to short time use.
6. Beef up patrols and enforcement and pound the areas where illegal Homeless activity takes place.( another great idea, lets see if the new chief lives up to the rumors and puts more cops on the street)
7. Make it hard for the drug dealers. If they can’t make money, like any business they will go away. ( this will be taken care of if more cops hit the pavement, I am a huge fan of the beat cop, My dad was a beat cop and LOVED it, Town also had a very low crime rate till the beat cops went away.)
8. Work with property owners, dismantle homeless camps that dot uptown, especially around rail road and state highway property. ( That is up to CSX, and the state and the city. but a good idea)
Bill my comments are not sarcchasm, you make some great points. I could actually sit down with you for hours and kick ideas back and forth. You are on the right path, its just a fact of who is reading this and taking note.
Be safe and have a great weekend

Slappy

[bluelinebill]

I was informed that just before the weekend that CMPD told it's Officers to back off the "WALL" area.

I may be wrong about this but who ever put the pressure on CMPD may end up regretting this move.


It's too bad that there is no Video documentation of the activity's at the "WALL" that would support what all who live and work in the area already know.

Odds are if there were, it wouldn't be shown. Might tarnish our City's image.

[bruce]

In other words don't enforce the laws in the area around (the wall). There are a lot of first class butt heads making policy in this city.

[crimedawg]

Jul 27, 2008 14:01:26 GMT -5 bluelinebill said:

I was informed that just before the weekend that CMPD told it's Officers to back off the "WALL" area.

I may be wrong about this but who ever put the pressure on CMPD may end up regretting this move.


It's too bad that there is no Video documentation of the activity's at the "WALL" that would support what all who live and work in the area already know.

Odds are if there were, it wouldn't be shown. Might tarnish our City's image.

Bill, I am disgusted that this has actually come to pass. As soon as the word "sue" gets thrown about, people begin to duck for cover and go turtle, as the City Council goes in CYA mode. Dang.

I received dozens of emails the very morning the "crackdown" article went live on charlottedisturber.com -- with people exalting the great things that were finally helping us homeowners in Uptown. For myself, the 4th Ward has always been a love/hate relationship -- love 4W, hate the crap that comes along with it. I cannot tell you how many disappointed people there are that lament the fact that our property values will continue to diminish; our homes and autos will be vandalized; our windows will be smashed in so some hobo can steal $0.91 from our ashtray; and people will defecate on our doorsteps. Yippee!!

I have an idea! Let's rent a few Ford Econoline vans, and swing by 945 North College Street this Sunday AM. In the back, we'll load up sandwiches, baked ziti, beer, fried chicken, deviled eggs, salads and more beer. THEN, we'll drive them all down to Myers Park, where we'll begin to serve them food, etc. All in the name of "good old fashioned charity." In fact, let's go right in front of Bill Diehl's house, and other lawyers, and the rest of the run-amok City and political leadership. Let's see how Michael Smith (address: 6746 Brookfield Place, with his wife Cathleen since 1998 --- FARRRRR from Uptown... is this even in Meck County? Seems like Matthews, perhaps far-off Ballantyne, even Union County). How CAN they possibly even relate to the multiple exigencies that exist in Uptown??) Let's see how they'd like it if all of a sudden THOUSANDS of homeless began to converge on their neighborhoods?

I remember my distraught neighbor in my condo bldg uptown calling me over a few years back --- there were three homeless men, butt naked, taking dips in our pool, cleaning their clothes in it, and hanging them on the railing to dry. She was in tears. And why not? Apparently, before I got over to her unit, one of them was defecating on the wall of our then-brand-new building. Wow. Then he took a little dip to "sponge off." This is what we dealt with, after spending, what, 200k or 400k on our new condo homes? No one cared in the city about this.

It's time they began to learn about this...

[bluelinebill]

Crimedawg

I feel your frustration on this problem.

I agree that if this were going on in Bill and Tom's neighborhood streets, It wouldn't last long.

I will say it again and again There are plenty of places where people can get fed and get help other than Phifer Ave.

This activity is conducted by well meaning people for THEIR OWN feelings of satisfaction about practicing their beliefs

These well meaning people cant be so unaware of the problems this feeding causes.

Or of the fact that there are many organization's in the city that work with the homeless that need and want volunteer's and money and supply's. Organizations who are working with the homeless each day and would welcome the help of the people who are feeding the homeless on Phifer Ave..

I don't think they care about the problems.

So I have to say I think this is about people putting their own belief's before the safety of the general public.


Personally I wonder what would happen if we pulled up a van and handed out free beer and cigarettes at the same time the feeding was going on.
Wonder which line would be bigger?

[kooldad22]

No the police isn't backing off. They're waiting on Center City Partners blessing. Then it's time to enforce to the fullest extent. But it is certainly possible that CMPD will wuss out because of the lawsuit threat.